Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Reflection of Tuesday

After yesterdays class I think I understand what we have discussed a lot better. The biggest confusion I was or am still having is about Freedom. Freedom is the final goal and we being agents of world, the spirit is free in us and thus “directing” us toward unconsciously the final goal. But at the same time the spirit is not free because it is unconscious of itself? And when hideous events take place they are indeed good in the sense that it needed to happen to fix the crisis in the world. That if they did not take place the problem would have turned out worse than it was or would fail to lead itself toward the final goal of the world.

7 comments:

  1. Let me clarify a bit of what I meant (which may or may not be a fair reading of Hegel....but even if it isn't, it's at minimum an interesting thought). I didn't say that things like the Holocaust "had" to happen, but a more careful way of putting it (which I did make but perhaps only to my end of the table) is that it was bound to happen, that is, inevitable given, now I'm using Hegel's language, the moment of self-consciousness of Spirit as seen through humanity's consciousness of freedom. An analogy might be that driving drunk is bound to lead to an accident. It isn't a good thing, but someone who thinks that drunk driving is a good thing is bound to have an accident and then, hopefully, learn from the accident and no longer drink and drive.

    So, and I'm trying to be fair to what Hegel wrote while simultaneously interpreting him as saying something that isn't, by my standards, abominable, genocide is bound to happen insofar and to the extent (and maybe that's redundant) that humanity has not achieved the end goal of Freedom and, what is the same thing, the self-consciousness of Spirit.

    Does this make more sense? Less sense? Or is this something you already got and I've done nothing to either improve or worsen your understanding?

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  2. "Freedom is the final goal and we being agents of world, the spirit is free in us and thus 'directing' us toward unconsciously the final goal. But at the same time the spirit is not free because it is unconscious of itself?"

    This is my interpretation... so give it thought, but don't take it as being correct :)

    Spirit is free in "us" where us represents the state of the state. Freedom is the collective capacity for all the individuals in the state to pursue their aims and reach their goals. Necessity, on the other hand, works to realize that freedom through the laws of the state. It acts as a fusing of our culture: art, politics, philosophy, religion. Its essential goal is to enable us to act out our freedom while insuring that we don't impinge upon the same capacity of other members of our state.

    When the goals of the state and the goals of the individual align, this is the realization of the union of necessity and freedom.

    I think you may be overstepping Hegel when you say that the spirit is in us, if you mean that literally. While, in a sense, God is in every christian, the Spirit that Hegel refers to that manifests is in the totality of the state. When the state finds the perfection that maximizes the fullest possible freedom for the individual, then it can be said that it has reached self-consciousness. The other term that I prefer to self-consciousness that Hegel uses is potential. So, to rephrase in a way that makes it more understandable, to me at least: When the state finds the perfection that maximizes the fullest possible freedom for the individual, then it can be said that Spirit has reached its fullest potential.

    Hope this helps (and is actually correct)

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  3. But Hegel does say that the "Germanic people, through Christianity...[came]to the awareness...that the freedom of spirit comprises our most human nature" (21).

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  4. Yes, this makes more sense. That is essentially what I was thinking just worded it wrong. That events such as the holocaust were not good but bound and good in the way that it was bound to happen to fulfill the end goal. Do you think that is fair to say?

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  5. I'd say bound to happen and fulfilled the goal not in order to fulfill the goal. It's not like the Spirit wanted the Holocaust (or any other genocide to happen) but to the extent that Spirit hadn't achieved full self-consciousness (because full freedom of humanity had not (and still has not) been realized) horrific thing are bound to happen and these things won't happen once humanity gets our collective act together and recognizes this full freedom.

    At least this is what I'd like Hegel to be saying and I don't think this conflicts with, and is even supported by, what we're reading.

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  6. Hmmm...So when humanity gets its act together to recognize complete freedom, then what? The goal is reached?

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  7. "Hmmm...So when humanity gets its act together to recognize complete freedom, then what? The goal is reached?"

    returning to the metaphor of the seed, what does a flower do once it has fully blosssumed?

    But another interesting thing I found was the metaphor of the house Hegel uses on pg 30. In it the elements which are essential for building the house are eventually shut out by the house once it is completed. "Thus the elements are utilized according to their nature, and yet they cooperate toward a product by which they themselves are being limited. In a similer way the human passions satisfy themselves; they fulfill their goals according to their natural determination and they bring forth the edifie of human society, in which they have provided for law and order as forces against themselves (i.e., restraining those passions).

    To me it sounds very much like self-contral, which coincides somewhat with restraining passions and the notion of freedom I suppose.

    One question that I have regarding freedom is how it is used when describing 'the spirit' vs humans. Hegel seems to suggest that as individuals our actions and intentions are self serving, yet they CAN serve for the overall progressing of 'the spirt'. I can't help but wonder about free will and how this relates both to us as individuals and 'the spirit" and if there is a distinction between them. I'm reminded of the quantum particles example which JCM briefly brought up in class in which the actions of sub-atomic particles are seemingly random, yet at the atomic level are not. Could we as individuals be like the sub-atomic particles, seemingingly random in action all the while 'the spirit' is at the atomic level and has a determined progress?

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